Blues has always been the most important thing.
When did you become interested in music?
It was the turn of the 1960s and 1970s. A lot of music from the British Isles was emerging then; some even called it an invasion of Anglo-Saxon music. For us young people from Poland, practically the only source of Western music was Radio Luxembourg. Then, in my hometown of Wrocław, in the market square, a guy named Ryszard ran a small company that produced audio postcards, which were very popular at the time. I don’t know where he got the originals, but the postcards featured songs by The Rolling Stones, The Animals, and The Yardbirds. He arranged everything according to the British charts. I was a compulsive buyer. And I wasn’t the only one. That’s how I became interested in music.
And why drums?
It was a coincidence. Near where I lived, there was another guy named Jurek, and I saw he had drumsticks, which really intrigued me as a young boy. We became friends, and I asked him to get me some. He was a very talented drummer, even playing in a popular Wrocław big beat band in the 1960s called Nastolatki. When I got my drumsticks, I started watching Jurek, while also trying to copy what I heard on the audio postcards I bought. Of course, I didn’t have a real instrument back then, as they were practically only available in community centers. You could get there once or twice a week and play them. I remember the first time I sat down at a real drum kit, I was devastated. Up until then, I’d only been hitting the couch, but here, the drumsticks felt completely different. But I persevered, practiced a lot, and over time, I started playing better and better. Eventually, my friends and I formed a band, where we played fairly simple covers, like “You Really Got Me” by the Kinks and “Satisfaction” by the Rolling Stones. I also started putting together my own drum kit. I started with a Polmuz snare drum, then a kettle drum, and finally, a friend brought me a bass drum from the neighboring DDR. At that time, Jacek Krzaklewski, known years later as the guitarist of Perfekt, and then, in the early 1970s, the drummer of the band Pakt, was leaving for Australia for an extended period. I was already becoming more and more well-known among Wrocław’s musicians, so Jacek suggested I take his place. Pakt played pop music, but also a lot of blues and rock. I stayed with them for almost two years. Since they were already a professional band, I finally started earning some money and was able to invest in more equipment. That was the beginning of my professional playing career.
You also struck out on your own quite quickly and formed your first band.
Yes. After finishing your adventure with the band Pakt, together with a friend, guitarist Janusz Konefał, we founded Muzyczna Spółka Akcyjna 1111, or MSA Grupa 1111 for short. In 1975, we won the 3rd Youth Music Festival in Katowice, where the jurors included Czesław Niemien and Andrzej Zieliński from Skaldowy. We beat over a thousand bands from all over Poland in the qualifying rounds and the finals, and I received the award for best drummer at the festival.
Are you a self-taught musician?
You could say that, as I haven’t graduated from any music school in Poland. However, one of the awards we received at the aforementioned festival was participation in music workshops taught by truly wonderful musicians. Among them was Joe Nay, a distinguished German jazz drummer who played in New York in the 1960s, and Czesiu Bartkowski, known for his collaborations with Tomasz Stańko, Zbigniew Namysłowski, and Michał Urbaniak, among others. The teaching staff included Janusz Stefański, who played with the Tomasz Stańko Quintet, among others. My studies there were very intensive, and I benefited greatly, especially from Czesław Bartkowski, who worked in a variety of styles. As for further education, while still in Poland, I learned from books, and later, after arriving in New York, I attended the Drummers Collective School, where I was taught by, among others, Lenny White, one of the best American jazz drummers, known for his work with Chick Corea’s band. That’s about it for my musical education. The rest was learning by doing.
You didn’t immediately turn to blues?
That’s true. As MSA Grupa 1111, we won the Katowice festival playing exclusively instrumental music. However, later we also had vocalists. One of them was Jorgos Skolias, with whom we experimented with jazz, fusion, and soul, among other styles. In 1977, we managed to take second place in the 14th Jazz nad Odrą competition. Later, however, the band began to fall apart, as we didn’t have any real prospects for making a decent living from playing music alone. I then joined the band Spisek, in which I played with Jacek Krzaklewski on guitar and Mieczysław Jurecki on bass. Mietek is best known for his time in Budka Suflera. Budka’s vocalist, Krzysztof Cugowski, also sang in Spisek for a while. We also had a brass section. It was a truly phenomenal lineup. We performed funk-jazz music, which was very popular in the States at the time. Thanks to the renowned vocalist Halina Frąckowiak, we managed to secure numerous lucrative contracts. For several months, we played every night, for example, at the Czarny Kot club at the Victoria Hotel in Warsaw, where each of us earned 16,000 złoty a month. Later, I joined Aleksander Mazur’s band, which accompanied two well-known vocalists, Irena Santor and Maria Koterbska. These were big concerts, and I toured many theaters in Poland, as that’s where the performances took place. However, they weren’t my cup of tea, and I started looking for a change of scene. In the meantime, I also briefly joined the band Romuald i Roman, now considered a legend in the Polish underground scene.
In 1980, you emigrated to the United States.
Yes. I was ready to leave in 1979, but then John Porter arrived in Poland, scheduled to play a concert at the Contemporary Theatre in Wrocław with Kora and Marek Jackowski. For some reason, they didn’t make it; Porter played alone, and I was in the audience. I was so impressed that when an offer to play with Porter came up some time later, I jumped at the chance. I performed with the Porter Band at Jarocin a few months later, where we were the festival’s sensation, and we recorded the album “Helicopters” in three days. We also toured Poland, playing with two other well-known bands: Krzak and Kasa Chorych.
Why did you even move to the States?
The political situation in Poland was getting bleak, and it was becoming increasingly difficult to make a living from playing. I’d always wanted to go to America, a desire further intensified by Martin Scorsese’s 1977 film New York, New York, and Roman Polanski’s Chinatown. New York was the city I longed to be in. I also thought this was the last time in my life I would make such a radical decision. I left the Porter Band, even though John Porter was absolutely thrilled. I moved to the States at the end of 1980 with guitarist Mirosław Kucaj, with whom I formed my first blues band. I had no one else in the States, and I didn’t speak much English at the time. First, I lived in Greenpoint on Kent Ave., where the owner had set up a meeting place for the Polish community in the back of the building. We mostly discussed politics there, but we often had the opportunity to organize music concerts there as well. In 1982, I rented a small room from a friend in the East Village, and I’ve lived in Manhattan ever since.
How did your serious music career begin, this time in the United States?
First, there were countless jam sessions with various musicians and in various configurations. I also began playing in clubs more and more often. I was good enough that the musical director of Wilson Pickett, one of the leading American soul singers, spotted me. They wanted me to fly with them on their upcoming tour to Brazil, but I couldn’t make it because I didn’t have the necessary papers yet. Unfortunately, the idea of playing with Pickett fell through. I later played in various blues bands until, in 1990, I formed my own band, Manhattan Blues Connection. I was with that band in Poland in 1995, where we played 12 concerts in 17 days, including a blues and rock festival in Głogów. We also played at Warsaw’s legendary jazz club, Akwarium. The first lineup of Manhattan Blues Connection was incredible. A phenomenal vocalist and guitarist, a pianist from Lenny Kravitz, and a saxophonist from Joe Cocker. Things weren’t bad after that either. We signed with this band to the BB King club, where we performed twice a month for four years. I also recorded the 2013 album “Cadillac Blues” with Manhattan Blues Connection. Unfortunately, the band disbanded when the coronavirus pandemic hit. It was a tragic time for us, as our longtime guitarist and vocalist, Andy Story, passed away. But all in all, Manhattan Blues Connection existed for nearly 30 years.
The aforementioned album isn’t the only one in your American discography.
That’s true. Earlier in 2003, the album Les Chalimon & Friends: New York Blues Session 2003 was released. It was the result of my many trips to Chicago and collaborations with local musicians. The album was created during a recording session with, among others, John Primera, who played with Muddy Waters years ago.
Les Chalimon is your English-language pseudonym, the one Americans know you by. Where did the idea come from?
Yes. The reason I artistically abandoned my original name and surname is quite prosaic. My first name kept getting misspelled, and one of the American musicians suggested shortening it to Les. Because it’s simple and sounds good in English. Later, I thought that if I also shortened my last name by three letters, I’d have a rather original English-French-sounding pseudonym. So I did. This had its unintended consequences, because when I was in France, the hotel receptionist addressed me in French.
You’re a musician who initially explored many musical styles, but since coming to the States, you’ve practically exclusively played blues.
Blues is the DNA of all American music, its fundamental element. Blues has always been most important to me. Willie Dixon used to say that “the blues are the roots, and the other musics are the fruits,” and I agree. While still in Poland, I came across an Otis Rush album he recorded with leading American blues musicians. Only then did my eyes open and I understood what true blues was and how different it was from the British Isles. Being exposed to blues so early helped me greatly after coming to America, as I practically knew most of the blues standards. I didn’t speak English, but if someone just mentioned the song title, that was enough for me.
You’ve played in many places in New York.
It’s hard to count them. Besides the aforementioned BB King Blues Club, in the East Village on Second Avenue in the 1980s and ’90s there was the excellent Dan Lynch Blues Bar, which became a true jazz university for many musicians. Everyone still talks about that place, and I was lucky enough to play there many times. I also performed in Greenpoint, for example, at a now-defunct club on Manhattan Ave, where we once played a rather spontaneous concert dedicated to Tadeusz Nalepa. Joining me on stage at that time were Andrzej Nowak from the former TSA as vocalist and guitarist, Antymos Apostolis from the former SBB as guitarist, and Paweł Mąciwoda, currently playing in the band Scorpions, on bass.
Do you have a favorite drummer you looked up to, and how would you describe your playing?
My playing style falls somewhere between old school and new school. Throughout my life, I’ve explored many styles, from rock, through soul and jazz, to ultimately blues. I admire many old-school blues drummers, such as Fred Below from Chicago, whom I loved listening to back in Poland, and David Garibaldi from Tower of Power. And the brilliant, unfortunately deceased, drummer Clyde Stubblefield, who played with James Brown, is one of my greatest musical inspirations. Among Polish drummers, I highly admire Jerzy Piotrowski, especially from his days with SBB in the 1970s.
The band NY Blues Rockets, with whom you’ll be performing at the Centrum Festival, is your latest musical project. How did it come about?
Due to Covid and Andy’s death, I was left without a band for over a year. For the first time in many years. As things began to return to normal, I decided to form a new band. In 2022, NY Blues Rockets was formed, featuring Seth Okrend, who has Lithuanian roots and sings, Japanese bassist Keiji Yoshino, and Marc Lindahl, who sings keyboards. Besides playing drums, I also act as manager. We currently perform as resident musicians at two beautiful blues clubs in Manhattan, which share the same ownership: Sour Mouse and Sugar Mouse, as well as many other venues in the metropolitan area. This lineup will also perform at the festival.
What can we expect from your performance?
As the name suggests, we play blues, although our songs are very diverse. We have a few of our own songs, composed by Seth Okrend, but they’re mostly covers. We perform classics like Muddy Waters, B.B. King, and Howling Wolf. We also include some James Brown-inspired tracks. I had the opportunity to perform with my band at another music event at the Centrum two years ago, and I have very fond memories of that concert. The audience had a great time, and people even danced to the more rock ‘n’ roll songs. We definitely hope that this time will be similar, or even better, because we were only around for a few months back then, and now we’re even more in tune.
Thank you for the interview, and I wish you good luck at the Festival.
Marcin Żurawicz